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	<title>Comments for Philomantis</title>
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	<description>Religion, Politics, Hellenic and Semitic Philology, Archaeology and other random "stuff"...</description>
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		<title>Comment on In the &#8220;Bowels&#8221; of Jesus Christ? by tyrone0ferrara</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/in-the-bowels-of-jesus-christ/#comment-1568</link>
		<dc:creator>tyrone0ferrara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/in-the-bowels-of-jesus-christ/#comment-1568</guid>
		<description>Dear Friend,

I like what Lynn Squire of &quot;Faith, Fiction, Fun and Fanciful&quot; (http://faithfictionfunandfanciful.blogspot.com/2009/03/yearning.html) writes,

&quot;In the Hebrew language, the bowels were the seat of deep affection and strong emotions especially of love and compassion. What does our character value more than life? What does he want to have that he would give his all in order to attain or obtain? We need to find what affects our character &quot;to his bowels,&quot; the strongest part of his emotions.&quot;

Makes sense to me. What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Friend,</p>
<p>I like what Lynn Squire of &#8220;Faith, Fiction, Fun and Fanciful&#8221; (<a href="http://faithfictionfunandfanciful.blogspot.com/2009/03/yearning.html" rel="nofollow">http://faithfictionfunandfanciful.blogspot.com/2009/03/yearning.html</a>) writes,</p>
<p>&#8220;In the Hebrew language, the bowels were the seat of deep affection and strong emotions especially of love and compassion. What does our character value more than life? What does he want to have that he would give his all in order to attain or obtain? We need to find what affects our character &#8220;to his bowels,&#8221; the strongest part of his emotions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Makes sense to me. What do you think?</p>
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		<title>Comment on In the &#8220;Bowels&#8221; of Jesus Christ? by MT.Akbar</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/in-the-bowels-of-jesus-christ/#comment-1448</link>
		<dc:creator>MT.Akbar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/in-the-bowels-of-jesus-christ/#comment-1448</guid>
		<description>JazakAllahu khayrun. I am really enjoying and learning from the material on this website. 

-MT</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JazakAllahu khayrun. I am really enjoying and learning from the material on this website. </p>
<p>-MT</p>
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		<title>Comment on Philemon 1:20 &#8211; Dogmatic Alterations in the New Testament by philomantis</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/10/philemon-120-dogmatic-alterations-in-the-new-testament/#comment-1439</link>
		<dc:creator>philomantis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 04:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/10/philemon-120-dogmatic-alterations-in-the-new-testament/#comment-1439</guid>
		<description>Raoul, these observations of yours probably alarm you a lot more than they alarm me :)

When these people resort to such deceptive and duplicitous tactics, they are only confessing the failure of their totem pole deity to give them the &quot;new heart&quot; that they claim to acquire upon being &quot;born again&quot;.

Anyone who witnessed that discussion clearly saw Pastor &quot;Do The Right Thing&quot; delete my posts when he and his minions could not answer them.

No skin off my back. Though, I&#039;m sure their actions bearing witness against their own deity is a cause for far more consternation for them than it is for me ;)

May God guide us all to His Truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raoul, these observations of yours probably alarm you a lot more than they alarm me <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>When these people resort to such deceptive and duplicitous tactics, they are only confessing the failure of their totem pole deity to give them the &#8220;new heart&#8221; that they claim to acquire upon being &#8220;born again&#8221;.</p>
<p>Anyone who witnessed that discussion clearly saw Pastor &#8220;Do The Right Thing&#8221; delete my posts when he and his minions could not answer them.</p>
<p>No skin off my back. Though, I&#8217;m sure their actions bearing witness against their own deity is a cause for far more consternation for them than it is for me <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>May God guide us all to His Truth.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Matthew 27:46 &#8211; &#8220;My God, My God&#8230;.huh?&#8221; by philomantis</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1438</link>
		<dc:creator>philomantis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 04:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1438</guid>
		<description>mlorfeld, your hypotheses rest upon the assumption that Matthew wrote the Gospel attributed to him, or that there even was a disciple named &quot;Mattiyahu&quot; or &quot;Mattai&quot;. Both assumptions are severely lacking of any historical evidence. Historians don&#039;t even know who he was or what Hebrew name the Greek &quot;Matthaios&quot; even referred to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mlorfeld, your hypotheses rest upon the assumption that Matthew wrote the Gospel attributed to him, or that there even was a disciple named &#8220;Mattiyahu&#8221; or &#8220;Mattai&#8221;. Both assumptions are severely lacking of any historical evidence. Historians don&#8217;t even know who he was or what Hebrew name the Greek &#8220;Matthaios&#8221; even referred to.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Matthew 27:46 &#8211; &#8220;My God, My God&#8230;.huh?&#8221; by philomantis</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1437</link>
		<dc:creator>philomantis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 04:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1437</guid>
		<description>To &quot;Abduhu&quot; who states:

&quot;Finally, to Said I must exclaim, if we don’t turn to Arabic or Hebrew for help in interpreting an Aramaic word, what should we turn to? Chineese?!!!&quot;

I am not aware of any &quot;Chineese&quot; language. Perhaps, you meant Chinese.

To answer your question: &quot;..if we don’t turn to Arabic or Hebrew for help in interpreting an Aramaic word, what should we turn to?&quot;

You turn to an Aramaic Lexicon to understand an Aramaic word. Not Arabic. Not &quot;Chineese&quot; (sic). We&#039;re talking about Old Judean Western Galilean Aramaic. 

To turn to Arabic which is a Nabatean offspring to understand Western Aramaic of the 1st century CE is just plain ridiculous to put it as politely as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To &#8220;Abduhu&#8221; who states:</p>
<p>&#8220;Finally, to Said I must exclaim, if we don’t turn to Arabic or Hebrew for help in interpreting an Aramaic word, what should we turn to? Chineese?!!!&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not aware of any &#8220;Chineese&#8221; language. Perhaps, you meant Chinese.</p>
<p>To answer your question: &#8220;..if we don’t turn to Arabic or Hebrew for help in interpreting an Aramaic word, what should we turn to?&#8221;</p>
<p>You turn to an Aramaic Lexicon to understand an Aramaic word. Not Arabic. Not &#8220;Chineese&#8221; (sic). We&#8217;re talking about Old Judean Western Galilean Aramaic. </p>
<p>To turn to Arabic which is a Nabatean offspring to understand Western Aramaic of the 1st century CE is just plain ridiculous to put it as politely as possible.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Philemon 1:20 &#8211; Dogmatic Alterations in the New Testament by raoul</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/10/philemon-120-dogmatic-alterations-in-the-new-testament/#comment-1429</link>
		<dc:creator>raoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/10/philemon-120-dogmatic-alterations-in-the-new-testament/#comment-1429</guid>
		<description>Regarding your interchanges over at the &#039;do the right thing&#039; blog.

1. The owner of that blog instigates the hatred directed towards your faith.
2. On another blog he has referred to you as &#039;pedeophile enablers&#039; and
3. On the same blog he actually brags about you being trounced by his religious right wing neocon friends over at his blog.

Just wanted to let you know the true face of what you&#039;re dealing with over here. The pastor is duplicious in his dealings with anyone who doesn&#039;t agree with his mindset.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding your interchanges over at the &#8216;do the right thing&#8217; blog.</p>
<p>1. The owner of that blog instigates the hatred directed towards your faith.<br />
2. On another blog he has referred to you as &#8216;pedeophile enablers&#8217; and<br />
3. On the same blog he actually brags about you being trounced by his religious right wing neocon friends over at his blog.</p>
<p>Just wanted to let you know the true face of what you&#8217;re dealing with over here. The pastor is duplicious in his dealings with anyone who doesn&#8217;t agree with his mindset.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Matthew 27:46 &#8211; &#8220;My God, My God&#8230;.huh?&#8221; by mlorfeld</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1421</link>
		<dc:creator>mlorfeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1421</guid>
		<description>In working on this text I stumbled across your article.  You do give a fairly good breakdown of the problems that such new meanings bring.  Of interest, especially to the lexicon thumpers, may at least be to look at how Matthew himself translates the phrase into Greek:  egkataleipes̄.  This does have the notion (especially when dealing with a corpse... or in this case a near corpse) abandonment/desertion/forsaking... leaving to rot.  It also is not entirely inappropriate then to look at how Jerome treats this in the Vulgate:  Heli Heli lema sabacthani hoc est Deus meus Deus meus ut quid dereliquisti me.  What ever sense that fourth word has, Matthew (whom I admit was probably more knowledgeable of the Hebrew language than myself) and then Jerome, both understand Christ&#039;s words to be as we currently translate: &quot;My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In working on this text I stumbled across your article.  You do give a fairly good breakdown of the problems that such new meanings bring.  Of interest, especially to the lexicon thumpers, may at least be to look at how Matthew himself translates the phrase into Greek:  egkataleipes̄.  This does have the notion (especially when dealing with a corpse&#8230; or in this case a near corpse) abandonment/desertion/forsaking&#8230; leaving to rot.  It also is not entirely inappropriate then to look at how Jerome treats this in the Vulgate:  Heli Heli lema sabacthani hoc est Deus meus Deus meus ut quid dereliquisti me.  What ever sense that fourth word has, Matthew (whom I admit was probably more knowledgeable of the Hebrew language than myself) and then Jerome, both understand Christ&#8217;s words to be as we currently translate: &#8220;My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Prophetic Advice to Desist from Ethiopia by Idetrorce</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/20/the-prophetic-advice-to-desist-from-ethiopia/#comment-1338</link>
		<dc:creator>Idetrorce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/20/the-prophetic-advice-to-desist-from-ethiopia/#comment-1338</guid>
		<description>very interesting, but I don&#039;t agree with you 
Idetrorce</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very interesting, but I don&#8217;t agree with you<br />
Idetrorce</p>
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		<title>Comment on Matthew 27:46 &#8211; &#8220;My God, My God&#8230;.huh?&#8221; by عبده</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1315</link>
		<dc:creator>عبده</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 04:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1315</guid>
		<description>I believe the issue can be discussed better if we know the exact Aramaic root of the word &quot;Shabaqtani&quot;.  So, just as you gave the three letters of &quot;lama&quot; (lamed, mim, and alef) please give us the letters of the word &quot;Shabaqtani&quot; or just the verb &quot;Shabaqa&quot;.  My mother language is Arabic and I beleive I can help.  But I am a little confused because sometimes the word is written &quot;sabachtani&quot; and other times it is &quot;shabaqtani&quot; and there is way big difference.. you can go from east to west if one consonant is changed.  The &quot;ba&quot; sound in the middle seems to be there in all versions of the word, but the other two sounds (beginning and ending) change from one version to the other.

There are only two possible alternates of the beginning consonant: either &quot;sheen&quot; (Arabic &quot;ش&quot;), or &quot;seen&quot; (Arabic &quot;س&quot;)
For the ending consonant, a number of alternatives can be considered:
a) &quot;qaf&quot; (Arabic &quot;ق&quot;),
b) &quot;kha&quot; (Arabic &quot;خ&quot;),
c) &quot;ha&quot; (Arabic &quot;ح&quot; -- don&#039;t confuse with &quot;هـ&quot;).  The &quot;ha&quot; might seem an unlikely option at first, but it is a very valid one since the word usually is written &quot;sabachtani&quot; where the &quot;ch&quot; here can equally be referring to either &quot;خ&quot; or &quot;ح&quot; especially since the Greek tongue can not distinguish the two.
I will also include a forth alternative
d) the sound &quot;k&quot; (Arabic &quot;ك&quot;) although it is very unlikely because if it were a possibility it would have been the only possibility, because it can not be confused and would be clearly written with the letter &quot;K&quot; and won&#039;t leave any room for speculation.

So, we now can expect the following possible roots:
1) seen-ba-kha ... sabakhtani سبختني
2) seen-ba-ha  ... sabahtani سبحتني
3) seen-ba-qa  ... sabaqtani سبقتني
4) seen-ba-ka ... sabaktani سبكتني
5) sheen-ba-kha ... shabakhtani شبختني
6) sheen-ba-ha .... shabahtani شبحتني
7) sheen-ba-qa ... shabaqtani شبقتني
8) sheen-ba-ka ... shabaktani شبكتني

From my knowledge in Arabic I can give the meaning of only the following candidate combinations:
2) sabahtani = you swam me (verb: to swim)
3) sabaqtani = you outran me, or got there before me
4) sabaktani = you made me into a sabeeka (metal alloy)
6) shabahtani = you hung me on a stick, a pole, or a wall
8) shabaktani = you hooked me up

Finally, to Said I must exclaim, if we don&#039;t turn to Arabic or Hebrew for help in interpreting an Aramaic word, what should we turn to? Chineese?!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the issue can be discussed better if we know the exact Aramaic root of the word &#8220;Shabaqtani&#8221;.  So, just as you gave the three letters of &#8220;lama&#8221; (lamed, mim, and alef) please give us the letters of the word &#8220;Shabaqtani&#8221; or just the verb &#8220;Shabaqa&#8221;.  My mother language is Arabic and I beleive I can help.  But I am a little confused because sometimes the word is written &#8220;sabachtani&#8221; and other times it is &#8220;shabaqtani&#8221; and there is way big difference.. you can go from east to west if one consonant is changed.  The &#8220;ba&#8221; sound in the middle seems to be there in all versions of the word, but the other two sounds (beginning and ending) change from one version to the other.</p>
<p>There are only two possible alternates of the beginning consonant: either &#8220;sheen&#8221; (Arabic &#8220;ش&#8221;), or &#8220;seen&#8221; (Arabic &#8220;س&#8221;)<br />
For the ending consonant, a number of alternatives can be considered:<br />
a) &#8220;qaf&#8221; (Arabic &#8220;ق&#8221;),<br />
b) &#8220;kha&#8221; (Arabic &#8220;خ&#8221;),<br />
c) &#8220;ha&#8221; (Arabic &#8220;ح&#8221; &#8212; don&#8217;t confuse with &#8220;هـ&#8221;).  The &#8220;ha&#8221; might seem an unlikely option at first, but it is a very valid one since the word usually is written &#8220;sabachtani&#8221; where the &#8220;ch&#8221; here can equally be referring to either &#8220;خ&#8221; or &#8220;ح&#8221; especially since the Greek tongue can not distinguish the two.<br />
I will also include a forth alternative<br />
d) the sound &#8220;k&#8221; (Arabic &#8220;ك&#8221;) although it is very unlikely because if it were a possibility it would have been the only possibility, because it can not be confused and would be clearly written with the letter &#8220;K&#8221; and won&#8217;t leave any room for speculation.</p>
<p>So, we now can expect the following possible roots:<br />
1) seen-ba-kha &#8230; sabakhtani سبختني<br />
2) seen-ba-ha  &#8230; sabahtani سبحتني<br />
3) seen-ba-qa  &#8230; sabaqtani سبقتني<br />
4) seen-ba-ka &#8230; sabaktani سبكتني<br />
5) sheen-ba-kha &#8230; shabakhtani شبختني<br />
6) sheen-ba-ha &#8230;. shabahtani شبحتني<br />
7) sheen-ba-qa &#8230; shabaqtani شبقتني<br />
 <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> sheen-ba-ka &#8230; shabaktani شبكتني</p>
<p>From my knowledge in Arabic I can give the meaning of only the following candidate combinations:<br />
2) sabahtani = you swam me (verb: to swim)<br />
3) sabaqtani = you outran me, or got there before me<br />
4) sabaktani = you made me into a sabeeka (metal alloy)<br />
6) shabahtani = you hung me on a stick, a pole, or a wall<br />
 <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> shabaktani = you hooked me up</p>
<p>Finally, to Said I must exclaim, if we don&#8217;t turn to Arabic or Hebrew for help in interpreting an Aramaic word, what should we turn to? Chineese?!!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Matthew 27:46 &#8211; &#8220;My God, My God&#8230;.huh?&#8221; by philomantis</title>
		<link>http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1205</link>
		<dc:creator>philomantis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/matthew-2746-my-god-my-godhuh/#comment-1205</guid>
		<description>Jerry, to interpret Biblical Aramaic with an Arabic lexicon is just as futile as interpreting the Qur&#039;an with a Syriac lexicon *cough*..Christoph Luxenberg..*cough* ;)

Though, later Arabic etymological descendants of Aramaic etymons may have hints of their original root meanings, the interpretive taint they undergo through the ages renders them outright inadmissible as an evidence regarding the earlier Aramaic etymon&#039;s actual meaning. Whew, that was a run-on and a half.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry, to interpret Biblical Aramaic with an Arabic lexicon is just as futile as interpreting the Qur&#8217;an with a Syriac lexicon *cough*..Christoph Luxenberg..*cough* <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Though, later Arabic etymological descendants of Aramaic etymons may have hints of their original root meanings, the interpretive taint they undergo through the ages renders them outright inadmissible as an evidence regarding the earlier Aramaic etymon&#8217;s actual meaning. Whew, that was a run-on and a half.</p>
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